Ifrah, 26, Birmingham
Occupation Internal auditor
Voting record Always Labour. Ifrah says she is a member of Suella Braverman’s “Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati”. Remain in the EU referendum
Amuse bouche Ifrah had a pet goat when she lived in Pakistan, between the ages of 12 and 14, and took it for walks
Richard, 55, Birmingham
Occupation Accountant
Voting record Always Conservative, except in 2017 when he abstained as he couldn’t vote for Theresa May. Richard describes his views as “very right wing”. Leave in the EU referendum
Amuse bouche Richard has his passenger-carrying vehicle (PCV) licence. “I’m one of the few accountants who can drive a double-decker bus”
For starters
Ifrah I was a bit apprehensive, but as soon as Richard came through the door he had a relaxed, chilled attitude. He was wearing shorts with a shirt and tie, which threw me a bit, but he was making it work.
Richard I never wear trousers – I even wore shorts at my dad’s funeral.
Ifrah I had a lamb shank with a butter naan. Richard ordered a rogan josh with fries – but I let it slide. I was there to support him, not judge.
Richard I’m used to a rogan josh at Wetherspoon’s with my swimming mates, but this was something different. The lamb was so flavoursome, it melted in the mouth. I always have chips at ’Spoons, too.
The big beef
Richard For me, voting for Brexit was about EU directives. The biggest example in accounting was the reverse charge VAT system we had to rush in in 2016, but which the French didn’t implement until 2022. I felt we were at a competitive disadvantage. That’s just one example: I could give another 10.
Ifrah I didn’t understand why we would sever relationships with our largest trading partner. The second, more emotional part, is I liked the idea that people had opportunities to travel and to make relationships with a block of 27 other countries. I felt the Brexit debate was hijacked by a certain element of the right, where the framing became all about immigration.
Richard Free movement wasn’t an issue for me. I would have wanted us to rejoin the European Free Trade Agreement. Theresa May’s agreement didn’t benefit anyone. But in my working-class part of Birmingham, there was a perception that they’d paid national insurance all their lives and all these citizens of the EU were being treated before them in the hospital. That’s a big reason why so much of the Black Country voted leave.
Ifrah He kept using the phrase “there is a perception of”, and I never fully understood if it was his view. We were both deeply unconvinced with the other’s point of view, but that was absolutely fine – we knew that before.
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Sharing plate
Richard My background is white working-class Protestant; hers is working-class Muslim. We have made it into the accounting profession. Public school-educated people are surprised we are there. What I learned from Ifrah is how much harder it is to come from a minority-ethnic background: the prejudice and hardship her parents had to encounter.
Ifrah Richard knows that working-class people have barriers to entering certain jobs, and was humble enough to acknowledge there are additional barriers for people of my demographic. But one thing I couldn’t reconcile is why he would think Conservative politics would alleviate these barriers.
For afters
Richard There wasn’t a common policy within the EU on migrants – both people fleeing persecution and economic migrants. If there had been, there would be no reason for people to be jumping in a rubber dinghy. If I was fleeing persecution, I’d stop in Belgium or the Netherlands. I wouldn’t risk a 23-mile sea crossing.
Ifrah There is no obligation for refugees to stop at the first safe country. What motivates people to come to the UK is usually family ties, or they are from former colonies so they share the language and history.
Takeaway
Richard I was very impressed with Ifrah. I said: “When this article published, if you want to meet up we’ll have a look at it”, and she was up for it.
Ifrah He’s a lovely guy. It was overwhelmingly positive, having a conversation I’d never have had.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
Ifrah and Richard ate at Qavali in Birmingham.
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